Yes, you read it right. Here is the essence: If the Saudis (and other OPEC producers) export fewer hydrocarbons, the buyers should still pay as if they were purchasing the old amount. They should pay what the Saudis could charge when the market was tight and the demand high, and the arrangements should not made in the Arab bazaar, but by treaty. It's a nice world that Riyadh lives in. Perhaps this is King Abdullah's gracious response to President Obama's servile bow.
"Less global warming would be good, right?" ask Jad Mouawad and Andrew C. Revkin in a report in Tuesday's Times. No, they answer themselves: "Not to an oil giant."
This comes up now because of the upcoming Framework Convention on Climate Change in Copenhagen. The fact is that the Saudis (as well as the Iranians, the Venezuelans, the emirates, and other big producers) are frightened that their incomes will fall if the attendees commit themselves to "improvements in fuel economy and rising mandates for alternative fuels in the transportation sector." Yes, it could be happening ... and it could be happening this year.
Jake Schmidt, director of the Natural Resources Defense Council, has a very apt--in fact, devastating--analogy: "It is like the tobacco industry asking for compensation for lost revenues as a part of a settlement to address the health risks of smoking." In fact, if a smoker stops smoking, why don't we oblige him to pay for his cigarettes anyway?
Actually, we are not talking chump change in the petroleum industry. As the Times points out:
Saudi Arabia is highly dependent on oil exports, which account for most of the government’s budget. Last year, when prices peaked, the kingdom’s oil revenue swelled by 37 percent, to $281 billion, according to Jadwa Investment, a Saudi bank. That was more than four times the 2002 level. At one point in 2008, the average gasoline price in the United States surpassed $4 a gallon.
Saudi exports are expected to drop to $115 billion this year, after oil prices fell. American gasoline prices are hovering around $2.50 a gallon.
Rakhmones afn tavyel. Compassion on the devil. The fact is that the Saudis have just about nothing going for them except their oil. The same is true for the emirates and other little principalities here and there around the Gulf. Save that they are now not poor, they are prime instances of the intellectual and social poverty reported on in the five annual volumes of the United Nations Arab Human Development Report. They are also niggardly.
U.S. banks and other securities institutions do not depend on international conferences for their levels of compensation. As Aaron Lucchetti and Stephen Grocer demonstrate in Wednesday’s Wall Street Journal (“Wall Street on Track to Award Record Pay”), “Major U.S. banks and securities firms are on pace to pay their employees about $140 billion this year--a record high that shows compensation is rebounding despite regulatory scrutiny of Wall Street's pay culture.”
The economic disaster from which we have not yet emerged, and which, for many of our fellow Americans, may still become more dire, hasn’t produced justice for its creators. In fact, Wall Street now is not afraid to display its ebullience which has an uglier side: arrogance. The bankers feigned a few months of shame. But, now, they are back at their own old game. And U.S. politicians and politics have been intimidated by the old miracle makers who actually created a catastrophe.
Yes, it is true. The government’s pay czar is still trying to coax a reduction in a $198 million AIG bonus package, as Mary Williams Walsh shows also in Wednesday’s Times. But, if Kenneth Feinberg actually secures that, it will only maximize the other bankers who are back where they were in 2007.
And while you’re at it reading about the scandal of the extremely well paid, please read another Times report, “Still on the Job, but at Half the Pay,” by Louis Uchitelle. Brian Lawlor was demoted from captain to first officer. He does exactly what he did before (for ExpressJet Airlines, a Continental Airlines spin-off)--he pilots his craft--but he has a different title. You can imagine what it means to earn $40,000 now--what it means economically and psychologically--when you earned $80,000 before. The story is what we used to call a human-interest story, and it is a sad one.
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COMMENTS (31)
While I'm outraged at the liars on Wall Street, who foisted a hoax on us all and pillaged the national treasury, what does this have to do with Saudi Arabia?
While I'm outraged at the liars on Wall Street, who foisted a hoax on us all and pillaged the national treasury, what does this have to do with Saudi Arabia?
Gosh, I love seeing that, "BE THE FIRST TO COMMENT".
Don't you?
mp:
The fact is that the Saudis have just about nothing going for them except their oil. The same is true for the emirates and other little principalities here and there around the Gulf.
george:
Well, they are Arabs, right?
And niggardly!!
Paging pundit George Will! Paging pundit George Will!
George,
We need you to explain to any children who might be reading Marty's post above that "niggardly" is okay to use. The "a" makes all the difference.
Though, perhaps, on a subconscious level..... ; o )
Oh, and while we're on the subject of niggards, the Big Buckmeisters on Wall Street are setting a fine example for these backwards folks in R ... view full comment
Gosh, I love seeing that, "BE THE FIRST TO COMMENT".
Don't you?
mp:
The fact is that the Saudis have just about nothing going for them except their oil. The same is true for the emirates and other little principalities here and there around the Gulf.
george:
Well, they are Arabs, right?
And niggardly!!
Paging pundit George Will! Paging pundit George Will!
George,
We need you to explain to any children who might be reading Marty's post above that "niggardly" is okay to use. The "a" makes all the difference.
Though, perhaps, on a subconscious level..... ; o )
Oh, and while we're on the subject of niggards, the Big Buckmeisters on Wall Street are setting a fine example for these backwards folks in Riyadh. After taking trillions of dollars from the taxpayers they have returned the favor by passing hundreds of millions of dollars back. Well, you have to work for them on Wall Street, sure, but at least it's going back into the American economy and not just the Chinese.
Aside to Marty,
Are you sure the bankers feigned "a few months of shame"? I checked back over the the past 12 months that I'm familiar with but I didn't find much shame. Are these months used only on the Judaic calender, perhaps? More details on these abashed bankers please.
george
"The Saudis Expect Us to Pay for Oil We Don't Buy"
If they do, I couldn't find any reference to it in the article.
"The Saudis Expect Us to Pay for Oil We Don't Buy"
If they do, I couldn't find any reference to it in the article.
For all his pretence to being a sophisticated philosophical poster who values ambiguity all of George Walton's posts have an unambiguous odor of Jew hatred about them.
He is also deluded manufacturing these little make believe "dialogues" here thinking that anyone would want to get into a conversation with a pretentious philosophical illiterate and bigot.
In this he is like some demagogic radio talk show host, Rush Limbaugh for example, who plays a comment on the radio by some political figure like Obama the and then answering them as if the person was actually talking to the cynical radio guy.
Walton is the Limbaugh of these threads.
For all his pretence to being a sophisticated philosophical poster who values ambiguity all of George Walton's posts have an unambiguous odor of Jew hatred about them.
He is also deluded manufacturing these little make believe "dialogues" here thinking that anyone would want to get into a conversation with a pretentious philosophical illiterate and bigot.
In this he is like some demagogic radio talk show host, Rush Limbaugh for example, who plays a comment on the radio by some political figure like Obama the and then answering them as if the person was actually talking to the cynical radio guy.
Walton is the Limbaugh of these threads.
"Walton is the Limbaugh of these threads. "
You just made George's day, Jackson.
"Walton is the Limbaugh of these threads. "
You just made George's day, Jackson.
noga1
""Walton is the Limbaugh of these threads. "
You just made George's day, Jackson."
It's not a compliment, Noga, and I doubt that even George who writes at times like a Lyndon Larouchite in training who recycles Chomsky's paranoid notions will take it as such.
noga1
""Walton is the Limbaugh of these threads. "
You just made George's day, Jackson."
It's not a compliment, Noga, and I doubt that even George who writes at times like a Lyndon Larouchite in training who recycles Chomsky's paranoid notions will take it as such.
Reminds me more of a Woody Woodpecker with Alfred Rosenberg dialog in a Karl Diebitsch wrapper.
Reminds me more of a Woody Woodpecker with Alfred Rosenberg dialog in a Karl Diebitsch wrapper.
Yes Jackson, I realize you did not mean it as a compliment, but comparing him to Limbaugh who holds such sway over the conservatives allows him all the more to puff up his feathers and feel important. Does george persuade or influence anybody here except possibly N & D mackenzie?
We the readers and participants in this board will be the ones to suffer his carpet posting, due to an even more enlarged ego to which your analogy contributed.
Yes Jackson, I realize you did not mean it as a compliment, but comparing him to Limbaugh who holds such sway over the conservatives allows him all the more to puff up his feathers and feel important. Does george persuade or influence anybody here except possibly N & D mackenzie?
We the readers and participants in this board will be the ones to suffer his carpet posting, due to an even more enlarged ego to which your analogy contributed.
noga said,
"...carpet posting..."
That's a brilliant neologism. But lighten up on Jackson!
noga said,
"...carpet posting..."
That's a brilliant neologism. But lighten up on Jackson!
The fact is that the Saudis have just about nothing going for them except their oil.
They have dates, don't they? And having Mecca and Medina will remain a nice tourist revenue stream, but outside of these Marty is right. Israel has attained a western standard of living due to knowledge, until the Saudis (and Arabs in general) take a similar position they are pretty much doomed. Of course they can, the Asian tigers did, the question is how much unnecessary suffering need occur before they do.
The fact is that the Saudis have just about nothing going for them except their oil.
They have dates, don't they? And having Mecca and Medina will remain a nice tourist revenue stream, but outside of these Marty is right. Israel has attained a western standard of living due to knowledge, until the Saudis (and Arabs in general) take a similar position they are pretty much doomed. Of course they can, the Asian tigers did, the question is how much unnecessary suffering need occur before they do.
Noga: Does george persuade or influence anybody here? I think he persuades d and a and j and all of the other voices in his head. George is sui generis, he has multiple personalities, and they are all equally obnoxious and boring.
Noga: Does george persuade or influence anybody here? I think he persuades d and a and j and all of the other voices in his head. George is sui generis, he has multiple personalities, and they are all equally obnoxious and boring.
No one still has explained what this all has to do with the Saudis. I still haven't figured that out.
No one still has explained what this all has to do with the Saudis. I still haven't figured that out.
"The fact is that the Saudis have just about nothing going for them except their oil."
The fact is that they have been buying a lot of influence all over the world and spreading their dealdy version of Islam.
Just one example:
http://www.forward.com/articles/116782/
"The fact is that the Saudis have just about nothing going for them except their oil."
The fact is that they have been buying a lot of influence all over the world and spreading their dealdy version of Islam.
Just one example:
http://www.forward.com/articles/116782/
blackton "Does george persuade or influence anybody here? I think he persuades d and a and j and all of the other voices in his head. George is sui generis, he has multiple personalities, and they are all equally obnoxious and boring. "
True but there are many more lurkers than poster and it's good to remind the occasional lurker that George Walton is a pathological character.
blackton "Does george persuade or influence anybody here? I think he persuades d and a and j and all of the other voices in his head. George is sui generis, he has multiple personalities, and they are all equally obnoxious and boring. "
True but there are many more lurkers than poster and it's good to remind the occasional lurker that George Walton is a pathological character.
black:
George is sui generis, he has multiple personalities, and they are all equally obnoxious and boring.
g:
Well, at least I'm not an esteemed communications professor who doesn't have a clue as to how to parry the substantive arguments of a run of the mill Sybil.
You are esteemed in your field, aren't you?
; o )
gw
black:
George is sui generis, he has multiple personalities, and they are all equally obnoxious and boring.
g:
Well, at least I'm not an esteemed communications professor who doesn't have a clue as to how to parry the substantive arguments of a run of the mill Sybil.
You are esteemed in your field, aren't you?
; o )
gw
"But lighten up on Jackson!"
I'm very fond of Jackson. He is authentic and genuinely concerned and thoughtful. I've learned a great deal from him. I only wish he wouldn't allow george to rattle him so. An occasional barb is quite enough for that Tartuff.
"But lighten up on Jackson!"
I'm very fond of Jackson. He is authentic and genuinely concerned and thoughtful. I've learned a great deal from him. I only wish he wouldn't allow george to rattle him so. An occasional barb is quite enough for that Tartuff.
tnmats:
No one still has explained what this all has to do with the Saudis.
george:
Once you are knighted in MartyWorld as a True Believer there is not a single facet of the entire universe that does not fit seamlessly into the Whole Truth.
Once the Big Bang created God, God created the True Believer. And then eventually The Spine. And it was good. And on the seventh day, in a suburb outside of Riyadh, He rested.
See what I mean? Everything is always for the best in the best of all possible worlds. Why? Because it is the only possible world. That's why the True Believers always strive to make it even better still.
Yes, I know, they get confused grappling with this oxymoron all the time.
That's wh ... view full comment
tnmats:
No one still has explained what this all has to do with the Saudis.
george:
Once you are knighted in MartyWorld as a True Believer there is not a single facet of the entire universe that does not fit seamlessly into the Whole Truth.
Once the Big Bang created God, God created the True Believer. And then eventually The Spine. And it was good. And on the seventh day, in a suburb outside of Riyadh, He rested.
See what I mean? Everything is always for the best in the best of all possible worlds. Why? Because it is the only possible world. That's why the True Believers always strive to make it even better still.
Yes, I know, they get confused grappling with this oxymoron all the time.
That's why God created me.
And He hasn't rested since.
; o )
gw
"I only wish he wouldn't allow george to rattle him so."
g:
Yes, that insufferable putz rattles lots of folks in here. Especially those who....as dhurt calmly pointed out....can ignore him anytime they please.
gw
"I only wish he wouldn't allow george to rattle him so."
g:
Yes, that insufferable putz rattles lots of folks in here. Especially those who....as dhurt calmly pointed out....can ignore him anytime they please.
gw
"Well, at least I'm not an esteemed communications professor who doesn't have a clue as to how to parry the substantive arguments of a run of the mill Sybil."
This from the poster who has never made a substantive argument on any topic, on this threads.
How deluded can George? Extremely deluded.
Blackton, on the other hand is one of the best and clearest writers on this boards.
But what would that asshole George know about clear writing?
"Well, at least I'm not an esteemed communications professor who doesn't have a clue as to how to parry the substantive arguments of a run of the mill Sybil."
This from the poster who has never made a substantive argument on any topic, on this threads.
How deluded can George? Extremely deluded.
Blackton, on the other hand is one of the best and clearest writers on this boards.
But what would that asshole George know about clear writing?
"I only wish he wouldn't allow george to rattle him so. An occasional barb is quite enough for that Tartuff."
He doesn't rattle me, Noga.
I am trying to stop that turd to leave this web site. It's a long shot, I know, but if everyone insulted him once a day it might get through to him that no one is interested in playing his ignorant and pretentious games. I am certain that at that point even he will get it and go post on more friendly boards like “stormfront.” That’s his real home base.
"I only wish he wouldn't allow george to rattle him so. An occasional barb is quite enough for that Tartuff."
He doesn't rattle me, Noga.
I am trying to stop that turd to leave this web site. It's a long shot, I know, but if everyone insulted him once a day it might get through to him that no one is interested in playing his ignorant and pretentious games. I am certain that at that point even he will get it and go post on more friendly boards like “stormfront.” That’s his real home base.
"Once you are knighted in MartyWorld as a True Believer there is not a single facet of the entire universe that does not fit seamlessly into the Whole Truth."
Every authoritarian creep, like George Walton, these days claims not to be a "true believer."
He is the mother of all "true believers."
"Once you are knighted in MartyWorld as a True Believer there is not a single facet of the entire universe that does not fit seamlessly into the Whole Truth."
Every authoritarian creep, like George Walton, these days claims not to be a "true believer."
He is the mother of all "true believers."
hey walnuts, who the hell said I was a communications professor? Do you just like to make up facts? And I never acted like a pretentious snotty ass, like you. As to esteem, I don't seek it and am quite content with my lot in life. I have traveled and lived in many countries around the world, learned many languages, and have few regrets.
As to ignoring you, I generally do but you are on nearly every freaking thread rattling on about things that have very freaking little to do with the thread. Even this thread about Saudi oil, and its pernicious effect on Saudi culture, you got nothing. Just once it would be nice if you were to act like a regular human being and talk like one.
I truly wish TNR ... view full comment
hey walnuts, who the hell said I was a communications professor? Do you just like to make up facts? And I never acted like a pretentious snotty ass, like you. As to esteem, I don't seek it and am quite content with my lot in life. I have traveled and lived in many countries around the world, learned many languages, and have few regrets.
As to ignoring you, I generally do but you are on nearly every freaking thread rattling on about things that have very freaking little to do with the thread. Even this thread about Saudi oil, and its pernicious effect on Saudi culture, you got nothing. Just once it would be nice if you were to act like a regular human being and talk like one.
I truly wish TNR had an ignore function, scrolling past all of your postings is tiresome. It is so sad you have so little self awareness of just how big a pain in the ass you can be. You literally shit on every thread. As has been said before by others, people are happy when they open a thread and not see you there.
OK, I know writing to you is a huge waste of time, like trying to teach Latin to an ape, you might understand a few words, but you will never get the meaning, but I am entitled to vent so vent I shall.
thanks Jackson, it is aggravating. There is so much information about the pernicious effects that oil has had on Arabian society, it could almost be considered to have been a curse. Right now I run a number of apps on my computer designed by Israeli computer engineers, it actually saddens me the tremendous loss of human potential within Arab society. I guess I am lucky because I lived in China when it came out of its shell (it still has a way to go, of course).
Even Iranian society has suffered tremendously. There is a pretty vibrant Iranian business community in parts of China, once they are freed from the oil based theocracy it is something to see.
Ok, I will admit Marty's posting here is a ... view full comment
thanks Jackson, it is aggravating. There is so much information about the pernicious effects that oil has had on Arabian society, it could almost be considered to have been a curse. Right now I run a number of apps on my computer designed by Israeli computer engineers, it actually saddens me the tremendous loss of human potential within Arab society. I guess I am lucky because I lived in China when it came out of its shell (it still has a way to go, of course).
Even Iranian society has suffered tremendously. There is a pretty vibrant Iranian business community in parts of China, once they are freed from the oil based theocracy it is something to see.
Ok, I will admit Marty's posting here is a little bit all over the place, but I agree completely with his observation about how little the Saudis do have to offer, and there is zero reason this should be the case, from a purely human standpoint.
I now realize the Woody Woodpecker allusion was off base. While there may be cognitive parallels between the maundering ubertroll and a cartoon bird that lives to bang its head against hard objects, at least Woody didn't appear to be an antisemite and the unfailingly unfunny cartoon only lasted 5 minutes. On the other hand, the cartoon poster and philosophical poseur just keeps going on and on and on and on with his self-reverential ravings.
I now realize the Woody Woodpecker allusion was off base. While there may be cognitive parallels between the maundering ubertroll and a cartoon bird that lives to bang its head against hard objects, at least Woody didn't appear to be an antisemite and the unfailingly unfunny cartoon only lasted 5 minutes. On the other hand, the cartoon poster and philosophical poseur just keeps going on and on and on and on with his self-reverential ravings.
...and now I'm going back to ignoring him, though I'm worried that the scroll button on my mouse is just about worn out...
...and now I'm going back to ignoring him, though I'm worried that the scroll button on my mouse is just about worn out...
black:
hey walnuts, who the hell said I was a communications professor?
george:
Well, I figured since Plato and Aristotle were both communication professors...and I often mistake you for them...you must be too. Sorry, they taught me to think in syllogisms in college. Socratically, as it were.
And I have at least 7 fewer regrets than you have. Oh, and I only had to travel to Vietnam to pick up all I ever needed to know about self-esteem.
On the other hand, in the heat of battle over there, I forgot everything I ever picked up about being "a regular human being". And they gave me a couple of medals to prove it. Threw them away though. You know, in a march on Washington.
You'll get the point someda ... view full comment
black:
hey walnuts, who the hell said I was a communications professor?
george:
Well, I figured since Plato and Aristotle were both communication professors...and I often mistake you for them...you must be too. Sorry, they taught me to think in syllogisms in college. Socratically, as it were.
And I have at least 7 fewer regrets than you have. Oh, and I only had to travel to Vietnam to pick up all I ever needed to know about self-esteem.
On the other hand, in the heat of battle over there, I forgot everything I ever picked up about being "a regular human being". And they gave me a couple of medals to prove it. Threw them away though. You know, in a march on Washington.
You'll get the point someday. Maybe even after they have surgically removed me from The Spine.
gw
b1462:
...and now I'm going back to ignoring him...
george:
Yeah, sure you are.
By the way, why b1462? Why not b1461 or b1463? Or, for that matter, why not go for broke: b 666.
But then that would make you the Anti-Christ and not me.
Hmm...
Forget I even asked.
gw
b1462:
...and now I'm going back to ignoring him...
george:
Yeah, sure you are.
By the way, why b1462? Why not b1461 or b1463? Or, for that matter, why not go for broke: b 666.
But then that would make you the Anti-Christ and not me.
Hmm...
Forget I even asked.
gw
ignorant george walton:
"Well, I figured since Plato and Aristotle were both communication professors...."
Sure they were; Aristotle even got tenure from Philip of Macedon.
Autodidact Walton is sooooooo jealous of Blackton you can almost smell it in his resentful comments.
Wally is living proof that most autodidacts had ignorant fools for teachers.
ignorant george walton:
"Well, I figured since Plato and Aristotle were both communication professors...."
Sure they were; Aristotle even got tenure from Philip of Macedon.
Autodidact Walton is sooooooo jealous of Blackton you can almost smell it in his resentful comments.
Wally is living proof that most autodidacts had ignorant fools for teachers.
Experience the critical brilliance of autodidact Wally Walton:
"By the way, why b1462? Why not b1461 or b1463? Or, for that matter, why not go for broke: b 666."
Takes a lot of talen to come with such insightful criticism of bl462.
George also needs new glasses or a new brain since he can't distinguish between bl462 and b1462.
Why not b 666? Because the poster is probably not obsessed by Christianity as the runt of and autodidact is. It shows that the old boy came from a fundamentalist background.
Experience the critical brilliance of autodidact Wally Walton:
"By the way, why b1462? Why not b1461 or b1463? Or, for that matter, why not go for broke: b 666."
Takes a lot of talen to come with such insightful criticism of bl462.
George also needs new glasses or a new brain since he can't distinguish between bl462 and b1462.
Why not b 666? Because the poster is probably not obsessed by Christianity as the runt of and autodidact is. It shows that the old boy came from a fundamentalist background.
..."By the way, why b1462? Why not b1461 or b1463? Or, for that matter, why not go for broke: b 666."
Oh, that's a real ROTFL home run zinger. Ouch. Oh, my.
The blog handle has no deep significance. It's not a statement on the loss of individuality in a modern age of mass conformity.
Hell, no. I'd love to change it to something else, like an cool sounding word-name with both vowels and consonants, rather than "bl462", which could be the blog handle of a drone in the Borg Collective. It's just a random set of letters and numbers I chose for a subscriber login name when the only thing I used it for or ever thought I'd use it for was to download the pdf version of the TNR or to renew my pri ... view full comment
..."By the way, why b1462? Why not b1461 or b1463? Or, for that matter, why not go for broke: b 666."
Oh, that's a real ROTFL home run zinger. Ouch. Oh, my.
The blog handle has no deep significance. It's not a statement on the loss of individuality in a modern age of mass conformity.
Hell, no. I'd love to change it to something else, like an cool sounding word-name with both vowels and consonants, rather than "bl462", which could be the blog handle of a drone in the Borg Collective. It's just a random set of letters and numbers I chose for a subscriber login name when the only thing I used it for or ever thought I'd use it for was to download the pdf version of the TNR or to renew my print subscription or mailing and billing info.
But for now, bl(small L, not 1)462 it is. Irony once called me "b" in a response as he had also noted the blog-awkwardness of the handle.
By the way, the quote in my response was copied from Jackson's post (and many thanks, Jackson for the kind words, you are a real mensch), otherwise I would have missed the original jab from he-who-should-be-ignored.
By the way, the quote in my response was copied from Jackson's post (and many thanks, Jackson for the kind words, you are a real mensch), otherwise I would have missed the original jab from he-who-should-be-ignored.