PrintIt is just about 15 years since Yasir Arafat received the Nobel Peace Prize. Everybody understood that the two leaders of the State of Israel who shared the award with him, Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and Foreign Minister Shimon Peres, actually deserved it. But Arafat's primary deed in life was to be a terrorist. A tactician of terror and a strategist of terrorism. Thinking about Arafat in the royal palace made me cringe then. When I went to Al Gore's installation two years ago, I could not get out of my head that the rais had stood in the same spot, a usurper and a fraud. It was he who denied the Palestinians a state in 2000 and 2001 by refusing Ehud Barak's far-too-generous terms, terms which will never be offered again. Never. This is Arafat's real achievement: He protected Israel from its own good will.
But it is not Arafat's prize that absorbs us now. It is Barack Obama's. Edward Jay Epstein knows about the quotidian rules of the honors. Here they are:
“I did some research on the Nobel Peace Prize for my book on Armand Hammer (He tried to buy it in 1989 but, though on the short list, lost by a few votes to the 14th Dalai Lama). Here is the story in brief:
“Arms dealer and dynamite-inventor Alfred Nobel specified in his will that the Peace Prize should be awarded "to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses.
“According to the terms of his will, this prize is awarded by a committee of five people elected by the Norwegian Parliament and presented annually in Oslo on December 10, which is the anniversary of Nobel's death.
“It is easy to be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, since nominations can be made by any members of national assemblies and governments, the International Court of Justice, or any university professors of history, political science, philosophy, law and theology.
“Nominations must usually be submitted to the Committee by February 1 of the year in question (So Obama was nominated less than 2 weeks after he became President.)
“In 2009, a record 205 nominations were received. Unlike the Oscars or Golden Globe awards, The Committee keeps the nominations secret and asks that nominators do the same for several years. (When the past nominations were released, it was discovered that Adolf Hitler was nominated in 1939, as were Joseph Stalin and Benito Mussolini.)
“Nominations are considered by the Nobel Committee at a meeting by permanent advisers to the Nobel institute, which consists of the Institute's Director and Research Director and a small number of Norwegian academics with expertise in subject areas relating to the prize. The 5-man Committee then selects the laureate. Even though it seeks a unanimous decision, the winner may receive a simple majority of 3 votes.”
<!--Session data-->
COMMENTS (27)
It wouldn't matter to The True Believer if the nobel peace prize was awarded by astrologers. All....ALL...that matters is the name released. If it is the name of someone on Our Side, the astrologers are distinguished and honorable----bold fresh pieces of humanity as someone might say. If it is the name of someone on Their Side the astrologers are nafarious buffoons----fraudulant usurpers as another might harrumph.
After all, as Marty suggested, "everybody understood" that. Right from the beginning as it were.
We can argue endlessly over whether the selection deck is stacked. But no more so than those who argue endlessly over whether the reactions are too.
No one cons us more than we con ourse ... view full comment
It wouldn't matter to The True Believer if the nobel peace prize was awarded by astrologers. All....ALL...that matters is the name released. If it is the name of someone on Our Side, the astrologers are distinguished and honorable----bold fresh pieces of humanity as someone might say. If it is the name of someone on Their Side the astrologers are nafarious buffoons----fraudulant usurpers as another might harrumph.
After all, as Marty suggested, "everybody understood" that. Right from the beginning as it were.
We can argue endlessly over whether the selection deck is stacked. But no more so than those who argue endlessly over whether the reactions are too.
No one cons us more than we con ourselves about The Whole Truth; behind the Nobel Peace Prize or otherwise. The Truth revolves always around that which anchors us to the center of the universe. From there we see everything with the crystal clarity of 1 + 1 = 2. And if others insist it = 3, 4, 5 or 65,892 instead? Well, try to talk them out of it.
george
The CREEP GEORGE WALTON can't even compose a decent argument.
"We can argue endlessly over whether the selection deck is stacked. But no more so than those who argue endlessly over whether the reactions are too."
This is a non-sequitur, moreover can we really argue endlessly about “over whether the selection deck is stacked?” I doubt it. But ignorant Walton needs to believe that so that he can post endlessly on this issue and pretend that he some kind of savant.
Wally has been working overtime trying to critique Marty Perez and It has addled his brains.
THIS IS ANOTHER WORTHLESS POST BY GEORGE WALTON D/A (dumb ass)
The CREEP GEORGE WALTON can't even compose a decent argument.
"We can argue endlessly over whether the selection deck is stacked. But no more so than those who argue endlessly over whether the reactions are too."
This is a non-sequitur, moreover can we really argue endlessly about “over whether the selection deck is stacked?” I doubt it. But ignorant Walton needs to believe that so that he can post endlessly on this issue and pretend that he some kind of savant.
Wally has been working overtime trying to critique Marty Perez and It has addled his brains.
THIS IS ANOTHER WORTHLESS POST BY GEORGE WALTON D/A (dumb ass)
How the Nobel Peace Prize "works" seems to be something like this:
1. Obama is awarded prize.
2. Republicans and assorted snarky conservatives refuse to imagine that this gesture to the president might be also an honor for the nation, and make utter fools of themselves a week after cheering that Chicago lost its bid for the Olympics.
3. Obama delivers modest and graceful statement accepting the award on behalf of all who struggle toward that ideal, in the U.S. and abroad, and reminding us of the role the U.S. has played in the work for peace over time.
How the Nobel Peace Prize "works" seems to be something like this:
1. Obama is awarded prize.
2. Republicans and assorted snarky conservatives refuse to imagine that this gesture to the president might be also an honor for the nation, and make utter fools of themselves a week after cheering that Chicago lost its bid for the Olympics.
3. Obama delivers modest and graceful statement accepting the award on behalf of all who struggle toward that ideal, in the U.S. and abroad, and reminding us of the role the U.S. has played in the work for peace over time.
Snarky comments notwithstanding (they don't prove anything as far as the rightness of the decision is concerned) , I wonder if Ironyroad thinks this award is truly merited by anything at all Obama has done thus far and if so, what is it.
If it is meant as an honour to Americans, why weren't Americans, who elected Obama, given the award, given a share in the award, or even mentioned in the rationale provided for the bestowing of that award?
Snarky comments notwithstanding (they don't prove anything as far as the rightness of the decision is concerned) , I wonder if Ironyroad thinks this award is truly merited by anything at all Obama has done thus far and if so, what is it.
If it is meant as an honour to Americans, why weren't Americans, who elected Obama, given the award, given a share in the award, or even mentioned in the rationale provided for the bestowing of that award?
Norman Geras over at normblog has a decent take on the peace prize being given to Obama.
http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2009/10/obamas-peace-prize.html
From my point of view, though, it seems that there are two distinct problems that were revealed by the prize:
First: the conservative reaction has been embarrassingly stupid. Their ressentiment has been in full display. They may be scoring points with their base, but I doubt that their childishness will appeal to more centrist folk who care more about the economy and health care t ... view full comment
Norman Geras over at normblog has a decent take on the peace prize being given to Obama.
http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2009/10/obamas-peace-prize.html
From my point of view, though, it seems that there are two distinct problems that were revealed by the prize:
First: the conservative reaction has been embarrassingly stupid. Their ressentiment has been in full display. They may be scoring points with their base, but I doubt that their childishness will appeal to more centrist folk who care more about the economy and health care than about the dodos in Sweden.
Second, it plausible that as irony says the prize was given to our country for electing Obama. If that is the case, then, I for one reject hit. I wanted to elect Hillary and don’t need the hypocritical Swedes to set themselves up as judges of my country’s norm. Not with their history, which till the 20th c. wasn’t exactly a history of peace for their neighbors. Ask the Poles about that. Ask the Poles and Russians about that. (The peace prize was instituted to hide a multitude of sins by the Swedes.)
In any case, we don’t a “peace prize” for electing an African American president.
I find such suggestions insulting. Something along the line of awarding the Nobel literature prize to Pearl Buck, way back in the last century which many America writers at the time took it as insult telling the world that no better writer than Pearl Buck wrote engaged in literature.
btw: I am not comparing Obama to Pearl Buck since he is better at politics than She was at writing fiction.
Noga: "I wonder if Ironyroad thinks this award is truly merited by anything at all Obama has done thus far and if so, what is it."
The above mentioned ironyroad thinks this award was in fact not truly merited, and believes also that -- on the basis of his brief press conference yesterday -- the president is pretty much of the same opinion. But to turn it down would have created its own problems too.
The Oslo Committee (incidentally, unlike the other Prizes the Peace Prize is more of a Norwegian than a Swedish deal, and Norway was indeed under Nazi occupation in WW2) doesn't ask you beforehand, and I thought he handled the probably somewhat unwanted gift very well, playing himself down and pl ... view full comment
Noga: "I wonder if Ironyroad thinks this award is truly merited by anything at all Obama has done thus far and if so, what is it."
The above mentioned ironyroad thinks this award was in fact not truly merited, and believes also that -- on the basis of his brief press conference yesterday -- the president is pretty much of the same opinion. But to turn it down would have created its own problems too.
The Oslo Committee (incidentally, unlike the other Prizes the Peace Prize is more of a Norwegian than a Swedish deal, and Norway was indeed under Nazi occupation in WW2) doesn't ask you beforehand, and I thought he handled the probably somewhat unwanted gift very well, playing himself down and playing up all the others who work toward same goal.
JD, I didn't say it was an award to America (at least, I don't think I did) but equally I think it wasn't supercilious or patronizing and one can see it as reflecting well on the U.S.
Obama:
"I do not view it as a recognition of my own accomplishments, but rather as an affirmation of American leadership on behalf of aspirations held by people in all nations."
Except, as I pointed out before, the panel of Norwegian judges did not indicate anything of the sort. Of course Obama can, when he travels to Oslo to accept the award on December 10, use the opportunity to show how this award actually "reflects well on the U.S." by enumerating the many reasons Europeans have to be grateful to the US and by calling on them to express their respect by deeds, and not just by giving away awards that cost them nothing... it's not their money, after all.
Obama:
"I do not view it as a recognition of my own accomplishments, but rather as an affirmation of American leadership on behalf of aspirations held by people in all nations."
Except, as I pointed out before, the panel of Norwegian judges did not indicate anything of the sort. Of course Obama can, when he travels to Oslo to accept the award on December 10, use the opportunity to show how this award actually "reflects well on the U.S." by enumerating the many reasons Europeans have to be grateful to the US and by calling on them to express their respect by deeds, and not just by giving away awards that cost them nothing... it's not their money, after all.
This subject reminded of John McCain's conclusion of comedy routine at the Al Smith Dinner in New York, Oct. 16, 2008:
"With that, with that, my friends, let me make way for my opponent, who tonight is making a comedy debut that I guess we could call the final test of this campaign...
Now, of course, it would be unfair -- and even a little unkind -- to put my opponent on the spot before he gets up here or to throw him off his game with unreasonably high expectations.
But I do need to warn you, ladies and gentlemen, you all are about to witness the funniest performance in history.
In the 63-year history of this event...
...let's not add to the mounting pressure he must be feeling.
Just prepare you ... view full comment
This subject reminded of John McCain's conclusion of comedy routine at the Al Smith Dinner in New York, Oct. 16, 2008:
"With that, with that, my friends, let me make way for my opponent, who tonight is making a comedy debut that I guess we could call the final test of this campaign...
Now, of course, it would be unfair -- and even a little unkind -- to put my opponent on the spot before he gets up here or to throw him off his game with unreasonably high expectations.
But I do need to warn you, ladies and gentlemen, you all are about to witness the funniest performance in history.
In the 63-year history of this event...
...let's not add to the mounting pressure he must be feeling.
Just prepare yourself for nonstop hilarity...
. ..the funniest 15 minutes of your life or any other. I think he knows that anything short of that would mar the evening, insult our hosts...
...and perhaps even cost him several swing states.Senator Obama, the microphone is all yours."
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/johnmccain/a/mccain-al-smith.htm
“The Oslo Committee (incidentally, unlike the other Prizes the Peace Prize is more of a Norwegian than a Swedish deal, and Norway was indeed under Nazi occupation in WW2)…”
Incidentally, Irony, what does Norway being under occupation, have to do with, either Norway handing out the prize, or of its having chosen Obama as a recipient.
Two facts worth noticing” re: Norway having been under occupation did stop the prize from going to the IRC (international red cross) at a time when the German concentration camps were still in operation in 1944 and at a time when the IRC so fit not to disclose to the world the fact that Jews were being systematically murdered within these camps.
Secondly: ... view full comment
“The Oslo Committee (incidentally, unlike the other Prizes the Peace Prize is more of a Norwegian than a Swedish deal, and Norway was indeed under Nazi occupation in WW2)…”
Incidentally, Irony, what does Norway being under occupation, have to do with, either Norway handing out the prize, or of its having chosen Obama as a recipient.
Two facts worth noticing” re: Norway having been under occupation did stop the prize from going to the IRC (international red cross) at a time when the German concentration camps were still in operation in 1944 and at a time when the IRC so fit not to disclose to the world the fact that Jews were being systematically murdered within these camps.
Secondly: Norway having been under occupation didn’t stop the country from rehabilitating Knut Hamsun a great writer, yes but also a Nazi collaborator. Turning even a great writer, who was a Nazi, into a national hero isn’t exactly what peace loving countries ought to do.
Irony, "Obama delivers modest and graceful statement accepting the award on behalf of all who struggle toward that ideal, in the U.S. and abroad, and reminding us of the role the U.S. has played in the work for peace over time."
I took this to mean that you thought the award went to Obama on behalf of his country.
Irony, "Obama delivers modest and graceful statement accepting the award on behalf of all who struggle toward that ideal, in the U.S. and abroad, and reminding us of the role the U.S. has played in the work for peace over time."
I took this to mean that you thought the award went to Obama on behalf of his country.
I mentioned Norwegian history, JD, because you raised Swedish history in your earlier comment. I can't speak to Hamsun -- never read him -- but it occurs to me that we have a similar problem with Ezra Pound, who was more than a passive sympathizer of European fascism.
When I used the phrase "accepting the award on behalf etc" I meant merely that Obama, aware of the potential negatives of the Prize, rather neatly deflected them by his re-contextualization of the award decision.
Perhaps you are right about the Oslo Committee, Noga, but that isn't Obama's fault. However, at least they have managed to get the Republican right, Hamas, and the Taliban all singing from the same hymnbook.
I mentioned Norwegian history, JD, because you raised Swedish history in your earlier comment. I can't speak to Hamsun -- never read him -- but it occurs to me that we have a similar problem with Ezra Pound, who was more than a passive sympathizer of European fascism.
When I used the phrase "accepting the award on behalf etc" I meant merely that Obama, aware of the potential negatives of the Prize, rather neatly deflected them by his re-contextualization of the award decision.
Perhaps you are right about the Oslo Committee, Noga, but that isn't Obama's fault. However, at least they have managed to get the Republican right, Hamas, and the Taliban all singing from the same hymnbook.
"However, at least they have managed to get the Republican right, Hamas, and the Taliban all singing from the same hymnbook."
Accompanied by the sublime counterpoint melodic chorus, " George Bush and his ilk are responsible for every sparrow that falls......"
This prize is quite simply a European vote in the U.S. presidential election. I find it a cynical little ditty.
"However, at least they have managed to get the Republican right, Hamas, and the Taliban all singing from the same hymnbook."
Accompanied by the sublime counterpoint melodic chorus, " George Bush and his ilk are responsible for every sparrow that falls......"
This prize is quite simply a European vote in the U.S. presidential election. I find it a cynical little ditty.
Since Obama stated the prize money will be donated to charity, his best chance at a save is to name one or three American charities/NGOs that actually have accomplished some of Nobel's original criteria.
Thus deflecting the attention from himself onto worthy organization(s) .
On the bright side, both Sweden and Norway continue to tarnish their country images as 'role models for the world'. Lot of European commentary is as puzzled as most of America over this Norwegian fantasy.
Since Obama stated the prize money will be donated to charity, his best chance at a save is to name one or three American charities/NGOs that actually have accomplished some of Nobel's original criteria.
Thus deflecting the attention from himself onto worthy organization(s) .
On the bright side, both Sweden and Norway continue to tarnish their country images as 'role models for the world'. Lot of European commentary is as puzzled as most of America over this Norwegian fantasy.
Ironyroad: “When I used the phrase "accepting the award on behalf etc" I meant merely that Obama, aware of the potential negatives of the Prize, rather neatly deflected them by his re-contextualization of the award decision.”
I obviously misread your comment, here.
I agree about Obama’s deft political move. The guy should have gotten a Nobel for political perspicacity.
“I mentioned Norwegian history, JD, because you raised Swedish history in your earlier comment. I can't speak to Hamsun -- never read him -- but it occurs to me that we have a similar problem with Ezra Pound, who was more than a passive sympathizer of European fascism.”
I brought Swedish history because people tend to ... view full comment
Ironyroad: “When I used the phrase "accepting the award on behalf etc" I meant merely that Obama, aware of the potential negatives of the Prize, rather neatly deflected them by his re-contextualization of the award decision.”
I obviously misread your comment, here.
I agree about Obama’s deft political move. The guy should have gotten a Nobel for political perspicacity.
“I mentioned Norwegian history, JD, because you raised Swedish history in your earlier comment. I can't speak to Hamsun -- never read him -- but it occurs to me that we have a similar problem with Ezra Pound, who was more than a passive sympathizer of European fascism.”
I brought Swedish history because people tend to think of that country as having had a peaceful history which allows them to give out prizes in the name of mankind. The reality is otherwise with Sweden having in the not too distant past a rapacious nation of fierce and merciless fighters.
Norway also didn’t seem to have learned much from its WW2 experience. It’s pretense to being a non partisan in world affairs and hence abrogating to themselves the right to give out “peace prizes” is pretty meretricious.
Why the rest of the world should grant these two countries the privilege of giving out awards for “sainthood” in the name of humanity is beyond me.
As for Hamsun he was a despicable man but a great wirer. Except for some early imagist lyrics, a few “translations” from the Latin and Chinese and some lines in the Cantos the bulk of Pound’s work is pretty dull. I did try to read his Cantos, once upon a time.
"However, at least they have managed to get the Republican right, Hamas, and the Taliban all singing from the same hymnbook."
By the same line of argumentation, can I then say that you, and Louis Farrakhan are both singing from the same hymnbook?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2008/02/25/farrakhan-praises-o...
"However, at least they have managed to get the Republican right, Hamas, and the Taliban all singing from the same hymnbook."
By the same line of argumentation, can I then say that you, and Louis Farrakhan are both singing from the same hymnbook?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2008/02/25/farrakhan-praises-o...
Give it a rest, Noga! It wasn't a line of argument. It was a satirical poke. And incidentally they have recently been joined by Chavez.
Give it a rest, Noga! It wasn't a line of argument. It was a satirical poke. And incidentally they have recently been joined by Chavez.
JD, I'm not sure that people think of Sweden that way only. There's often a kind of comic recognition (among Scandinavians too) of the oddities of the "once-they-were-raping-and-pillaging-and-now-they're-all-for-peace" trope.
I'm not sure what the venom against Norway is for. They peacefully extricated themselves from being a colonial subject of Sweden. They haven't invaded anyone over the last century. And they were a part of the NATO territorial front line against the Soviet Union. I think, apart from Turkey, the only NATO member to have an immediate border with them.
Again, I brought up Norwegian history because you brought up Swedish history. I couldn't quite see the direction of you ... view full comment
JD, I'm not sure that people think of Sweden that way only. There's often a kind of comic recognition (among Scandinavians too) of the oddities of the "once-they-were-raping-and-pillaging-and-now-they're-all-for-peace" trope.
I'm not sure what the venom against Norway is for. They peacefully extricated themselves from being a colonial subject of Sweden. They haven't invaded anyone over the last century. And they were a part of the NATO territorial front line against the Soviet Union. I think, apart from Turkey, the only NATO member to have an immediate border with them.
Again, I brought up Norwegian history because you brought up Swedish history. I couldn't quite see the direction of your argument. That a country or region was one thing in the past and something else today seems like a point nobody would particularly want to contest.
The Nobel Prize is divided into two parts, the science/literature/etc one (Stockholm), and the Peace Prize (Oslo). This is not some self-serving geographical eccentricity but is laid down in the terms of Alfred Nobel's will. To complain that the world is "granting the privilege" or to carp that the Peace Prize is for "saintliness" is just juvenile. You might as well complain about the prizes for physics, economics etc being some kind of arrogant presumption also.
Again -- how many times, o lord!!! -- Obama didn't apply for this. He didn't even know, as they don't consult with the recipients beforehand. Since he was awarded it, I think he's handled it well. Whether or not you believe that the Oslo Committee made an inadvisable decision -- and I do -- is an entirely different matter, and I think this apparently uncontrollable spite will rebound on the Republicans.
By way of a footnote, I just read a range of different commentaries on RCP. Among the conservatives, Peggy Noonan's was far and away the fairest. She alone seems to understand that Obama isn't responsible for this event.
Interestingly, her proposals for Obama's speech in Oslo in December bear a notable similarity to Tom Friedman's in the NYT. In fact, his draft speech is somewhat more assertive.
By way of a footnote, I just read a range of different commentaries on RCP. Among the conservatives, Peggy Noonan's was far and away the fairest. She alone seems to understand that Obama isn't responsible for this event.
Interestingly, her proposals for Obama's speech in Oslo in December bear a notable similarity to Tom Friedman's in the NYT. In fact, his draft speech is somewhat more assertive.
"Give it a rest, Noga! It wasn't a line of argument. It was a satirical poke."
As my crack at your petulant logic was intended.
It is always such a let down to see you parroting some of the mean arguments repeated by the smug talking heads on TV!
Of course Obama is not to blame for the vulgar minds that decided to award him this Trojan gift, but he should make extraordinary efforts make it clear that the real hero of this story is the American people.
I remember many months ago, reading on these boards someone pay you a heartfelt compliment. Except that poster was not someone whose good opinion would gratify anyone, least of all you. I liked your response then. It hit just the right note for t ... view full comment
"Give it a rest, Noga! It wasn't a line of argument. It was a satirical poke."
As my crack at your petulant logic was intended.
It is always such a let down to see you parroting some of the mean arguments repeated by the smug talking heads on TV!
Of course Obama is not to blame for the vulgar minds that decided to award him this Trojan gift, but he should make extraordinary efforts make it clear that the real hero of this story is the American people.
I remember many months ago, reading on these boards someone pay you a heartfelt compliment. Except that poster was not someone whose good opinion would gratify anyone, least of all you. I liked your response then. It hit just the right note for that set of circumstances. Perhaps you should advise Obama on how to respond respectfully to the Norwegian putzes...
FWIW, I think he should give the money to some really hard working charity organization in Africa.
Actually, I m not sure it is a Trojan Gift. More like a Greek gift.
Actually, I m not sure it is a Trojan Gift. More like a Greek gift.
Irony, you are getting too excited my point was that the Nobel committe set itself up as the judge of all that is best and most noble in the accomplishments of humanity.
And it is believed which is why every year the prizes are followed so closely all over the world.
I don't think that either Sweden or Norway are in a position to judge the rest of the world. This is why I brought up Swedish history.
I did know that Norway was a colony of Sweden at one point. As for their not invading anyone in a long time that true. However, they didn't behave any better than most other European countries under the Nazi yoke. The percentage of Jews killed was about 41 or 42 percent. Not as bad as The Nethe ... view full comment
Irony, you are getting too excited my point was that the Nobel committe set itself up as the judge of all that is best and most noble in the accomplishments of humanity.
And it is believed which is why every year the prizes are followed so closely all over the world.
I don't think that either Sweden or Norway are in a position to judge the rest of the world. This is why I brought up Swedish history.
I did know that Norway was a colony of Sweden at one point. As for their not invading anyone in a long time that true. However, they didn't behave any better than most other European countries under the Nazi yoke. The percentage of Jews killed was about 41 or 42 percent. Not as bad as The Netherlands (75) percent, but still not very good either.
noga:
I wonder if Ironyroad thinks this award is truly merited by anything at all Obama has done thus far and if so, what is it.
george:
Here noga makes the usual assumption that true merit can be calculated such that how we come to view behavior either deserving or not deserving of it can then be communicated to others such that they either agree with her or they are wrong.
Obama either deserved it or he did not. No more or no less than he was awarded it or was not.
But behavior said to be merited revolves first and foremost around how we come to embrace [as dasein] one set of social, political and economic mores rather than another. Did noga come to embrace her convictions in the right way, fo ... view full comment
noga:
I wonder if Ironyroad thinks this award is truly merited by anything at all Obama has done thus far and if so, what is it.
george:
Here noga makes the usual assumption that true merit can be calculated such that how we come to view behavior either deserving or not deserving of it can then be communicated to others such that they either agree with her or they are wrong.
Obama either deserved it or he did not. No more or no less than he was awarded it or was not.
But behavior said to be merited revolves first and foremost around how we come to embrace [as dasein] one set of social, political and economic mores rather than another. Did noga come to embrace her convictions in the right way, following the right path while those who believe Obama deserved the prize came to embrace their convictions in the wrong way by following the wrong path?
How exactly does that work? How...step by step...can someone live their life from the cradle to the grave so as to be assured they are always on the path that will lead them to the right point of view about things like this?
Perhaps noga will be so kind as to unfurl her own sojourn to this latest Obama outrage.
And what of those who can enumerate reasons he deserved it and reasons he did not?
Those apparently who don't have either the intellectual fortitude or the ideological bearings to see the world around them as God does?
Ambiguous limpwrists like, say, me?
george walton
Poor pathetic George Walton says:
“Here noga makes the usual assumption that true merit can be calculated such that how we come to view behavior either deserving or not deserving of it can then be communicated to others such that they either agree with her or they are wrong.”
This from the self declared genius philosopher who is also an existentialist: George wouldn’t know an existential proposition if it hit squarely on his square head.
No existentialist would claim that merit is an obscure an occult property. Merit from an existential point of view is attached to what men and women do. It’s a performative quality and not an ineffable one.
But don’t tell this to Wally because thi ... view full comment
Poor pathetic George Walton says:
“Here noga makes the usual assumption that true merit can be calculated such that how we come to view behavior either deserving or not deserving of it can then be communicated to others such that they either agree with her or they are wrong.”
This from the self declared genius philosopher who is also an existentialist: George wouldn’t know an existential proposition if it hit squarely on his square head.
No existentialist would claim that merit is an obscure an occult property. Merit from an existential point of view is attached to what men and women do. It’s a performative quality and not an ineffable one.
But don’t tell this to Wally because this would ruin his night.
His comment is really about himself the narcissist thinks that he is a great philosopher because in his mind he has decided that he is. He also believes his merit can’t be communicated but that is his defense mechanism. This way he doesn’t have to take seriously anything anyone says to him.
I remember many months ago, reading on these boards someone pay you a heartfelt compliment. Except that poster was not someone whose good opinion would gratify anyone, least of all you. I liked your response then. It hit just the right note for that set of circumstances. Perhaps you should advise Obama on how to respond respectfully to the Norwegian putzes...
Yeah, I love to advise people. That's not a joke. But I was trying to think of who that poster might have been (there are two or three obvious suspects).
I have to say, in general, Obama has dealt with this peculiar, irritating, and strangely discombobulating gesture very well.
I'm reminded of an early short story by (I think) M ... view full comment
I remember many months ago, reading on these boards someone pay you a heartfelt compliment. Except that poster was not someone whose good opinion would gratify anyone, least of all you. I liked your response then. It hit just the right note for that set of circumstances. Perhaps you should advise Obama on how to respond respectfully to the Norwegian putzes...
Yeah, I love to advise people. That's not a joke. But I was trying to think of who that poster might have been (there are two or three obvious suspects).
I have to say, in general, Obama has dealt with this peculiar, irritating, and strangely discombobulating gesture very well.
I'm reminded of an early short story by (I think) Malcolm Bradbury, called "The Man Who Loved Literature" or something close to that. It's an eerie and disturbing piece of work, especially if you are a teacher of some kind yourself.
Since I'm not familiar with either Malcolm Bradbury or "The Man Who Loved Literature" , I cannot appreciate what you were trying to convey by this allusion.
Since I'm not familiar with either Malcolm Bradbury or "The Man Who Loved Literature" , I cannot appreciate what you were trying to convey by this allusion.
Yes -- I rattled it off without thinking of that. Bradbury (1932-2000) was a British novelist and critic, best known probably for a satirical campus novel called The History Man. The title I mentioned above is from a short story (again, I'm almost certain it's by Bradbury) about a university professor who teaches a weekly evening class on literature at a local community college where the students are all ordinary folk.
One of his students is this strange obsessive beatnik sort of guy whom the professor finds very odd and a bit disturbing. However, he is the only student who seems to value literature and who grasps something of the professor's goals. But he's weird and clingy and ... view full comment
Yes -- I rattled it off without thinking of that. Bradbury (1932-2000) was a British novelist and critic, best known probably for a satirical campus novel called The History Man. The title I mentioned above is from a short story (again, I'm almost certain it's by Bradbury) about a university professor who teaches a weekly evening class on literature at a local community college where the students are all ordinary folk.
One of his students is this strange obsessive beatnik sort of guy whom the professor finds very odd and a bit disturbing. However, he is the only student who seems to value literature and who grasps something of the professor's goals. But he's weird and clingy and pathetic. The professor, at the end of the story, is haunted by this cruel irony, that the only person who seems to share his ideas and ideals is someone whose mental balance is in question and whose commitment takes the form of a myopic obessiveness.
I was thinking of Obama as the professor and the Oslo Peace Prize committee as the weird clingy student.
Sighted on the Internet:
"President Obama has literally changed the direction of the world, from one teetering on the brink of a third world war to one placing value on peaceful solutions, mutual respect, and working together to solve common problems. In the meantime he saved this country from another major Depression - probably other countries along with us. Yeah, Obama definitely deserved that prize."
It is not an ironic statement.
Sighted on the Internet:
"President Obama has literally changed the direction of the world, from one teetering on the brink of a third world war to one placing value on peaceful solutions, mutual respect, and working together to solve common problems. In the meantime he saved this country from another major Depression - probably other countries along with us. Yeah, Obama definitely deserved that prize."
It is not an ironic statement.