Look, it's one thing for CNN president Jon Klein to destroy his network, which he has steared steered to last place in the cable news sweepstakes. But now, with the news that Lou Dobbs is leaving CNN, Klein runs the risk of destroying America. Don't believe me? Allow me to explain.
Until January, how many of you had heard of Glenn Beck? Not many, I bet. That's because from 2006 to 2008 Beck's show was on CNN's Headline News, where hardly anybody watched it. Which means that Beck couldn't do much damage. But then last October Klein allowed Fox News to hire Beck away and, well, you know the rest. Thanks to Roger Ailes's singular talents and a built-in audience for his particular brand of lunacy, Beck saw his viewers grow from about 400,000 to 2.6 million and now he'll probably be president one day, or at least a constant irritant like Limbaugh.
What does this have to do with Dobbs? Well, for the last year or more, Klein has been taking hits from groups like Media Matters for employing Dobbs at the same time he's been arguing that CNN is devoted to straight journalism rather than sensationalistic punditry. And it's true, it was completely hypocritical of Klein to keep a xenophobic, birther-conspiracy-mongering blowhard like Dobbs on the air while the CNN president criticized Fox and MSNBC for sensationalism. But who cares if he was being a hypocrite? By keeping Dobbs on CNN--where he had about 650,000 viewers--Klein was protecting the rest of us. Consider CNN like a quarantine for dangerously demagogic talk show hosts.
But now that Klein has released Dobbs from the CNN quarantine, what's to stop Lou from teaming up with Ailes, who is reportedly considering him for the Fox Business Channel? And then, well, we've already seen this play before. Anyone want to bet that a year from now, Dobbs will be flourishing with millions of viewers at Fox and the whole country will be a lot worse off for it? And CNN, of course, will still be mired in last place--which would be perfect, save for the fact that, thanks to Klein, Beck and Dobbs won't be stuck there with them.
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COMMENTS (16)
I would bet my next month's salary that Meskin hater Lou will be on FIXed News by January 2010.
I would bet my next month's salary that Meskin hater Lou will be on FIXed News by January 2010.
"steared"!!?? Don't you guys even run the MS Word spell checker before you post copy?
Leave alone the lost art of sub-editing.
"steared"!!?? Don't you guys even run the MS Word spell checker before you post copy?
Leave alone the lost art of sub-editing.
The vast right wing conspiracy appears to have no trouble attracting viewers and listeners.
The vast right wing conspiracy appears to have no trouble attracting viewers and listeners.
Good for Klein for doing the right thing. Dobbs is a hate monger who become more drunk and fevered with the power of it every day. What a gruesome, ridiculous figure.
Good for Klein for doing the right thing. Dobbs is a hate monger who become more drunk and fevered with the power of it every day. What a gruesome, ridiculous figure.
I think Jason misunderstands the "quarantine" concept. A single morally-infected person in the company of 650,000 normal, sane and healthy viewers risks utterly destroying the population; the same infectious agent placed within 2.6 million people with a similar mental infection would be totally contained and under control.
It is not the size of the potentially affected population that matters, but rather its infection make-up. FOX News and its viewers are the real quarantine populations; and if Dobbs is contained within the walls of that lunatic asylum, the damage will be considerably less than when he is let loose in - an admittedly much smaller - sane environment.
I think Jason misunderstands the "quarantine" concept. A single morally-infected person in the company of 650,000 normal, sane and healthy viewers risks utterly destroying the population; the same infectious agent placed within 2.6 million people with a similar mental infection would be totally contained and under control.
It is not the size of the potentially affected population that matters, but rather its infection make-up. FOX News and its viewers are the real quarantine populations; and if Dobbs is contained within the walls of that lunatic asylum, the damage will be considerably less than when he is let loose in - an admittedly much smaller - sane environment.
lsrnoff:
Since Fox's numbers wouldn't even show up in a network rating, it does appear that they do have some problems attracting viewers.
Amongst older viewers they get respectable numbers for cable, competing with Disney:
Prime-time Average Viewers (Live+SD) Week of November 2-8, 2009
Network (000s)
USA 3,203
ESPN 2,920
FOXN 2,556
DSNY 2,503
TBSC 1,770
NAN 1,735
TNT 1,698
...
With younger viewers, not so much:
Adults 18-49 Primetime Average (Live+SD)
Network (000s)
ESPN 1,473
USA 1,198
TBSC 1,058
FX 950
TNT 772
CMDY 684
TLC 651
A&E 612
SYFY 590
DISC 566
SPK 55 ... view full comment
lsrnoff:
Since Fox's numbers wouldn't even show up in a network rating, it does appear that they do have some problems attracting viewers.
Amongst older viewers they get respectable numbers for cable, competing with Disney:
Prime-time Average Viewers (Live+SD) Week of November 2-8, 2009
Network (000s)
USA 3,203
ESPN 2,920
FOXN 2,556
DSNY 2,503
TBSC 1,770
NAN 1,735
TNT 1,698
...
With younger viewers, not so much:
Adults 18-49 Primetime Average (Live+SD)
Network (000s)
ESPN 1,473
USA 1,198
TBSC 1,058
FX 950
TNT 772
CMDY 684
TLC 651
A&E 612
SYFY 590
DISC 566
SPK 557
FOOD 557
BRAV 542
FAM 521
DSNY 508
EN 503
FOXN 475
NAN 470
TRU 467
HIST 460
HGTV 448
AMC 440
MTV 427
VH1 403
LIFE 394
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/11/10/ncis-repeats-keep-usa-competitive-w...
nari, yeah, great point. Fox at its best gets about 1% of the adult population of the US. Conservatives make up about 30%, so Fox isn't even able to draw that much of the Conservative base. I used to watch some Fox, but now find it unwatcheable (outside of Shepherd Smith). It preaches and misleads to the converted.
I also used to watch Moneyline, I have no idea how the Lou Dobbs of that show have become the caricature he is now.
nari, yeah, great point. Fox at its best gets about 1% of the adult population of the US. Conservatives make up about 30%, so Fox isn't even able to draw that much of the Conservative base. I used to watch some Fox, but now find it unwatcheable (outside of Shepherd Smith). It preaches and misleads to the converted.
I also used to watch Moneyline, I have no idea how the Lou Dobbs of that show have become the caricature he is now.
Nari - thanks. Though, Hannity is beating Dumbo, and that causes me grave concern.
And I am not a spam.
Nari - thanks. Though, Hannity is beating Dumbo, and that causes me grave concern.
And I am not a spam.
If nobody watches them, why is the White House so obsessed with them? Ask Jones and Dunn if nobody is paying attention.
Blackton: I excuse you from watching Beck and Hannity. I can't stand them either. I trust you excuse me from watching Matthews, Olberman (except on Sunday Night Football) and Maddow. Who knows, maybe you can't stand them either. I kinda hope so.
If nobody watches them, why is the White House so obsessed with them? Ask Jones and Dunn if nobody is paying attention.
Blackton: I excuse you from watching Beck and Hannity. I can't stand them either. I trust you excuse me from watching Matthews, Olberman (except on Sunday Night Football) and Maddow. Who knows, maybe you can't stand them either. I kinda hope so.
One failing of the New Republic has been its coverage of illegal immigration, which is more focused on the nativism/racism of many illegal immigration programs and less on rigourous research. Dobbs has featured academic researchers from Harvard, Stanford and Vanderbuilt on his show to substantiate his view that illegal immigration has seriously hurt the working class, especially African-Americans (the former view shared by Paul Krugman by the way). But somehow having this view on CNN is bad -- the nation needs TWO MSNBC's (or one MSNBC and no CNN, as Dobbs was one of their better-watched programs).
One failing of the New Republic has been its coverage of illegal immigration, which is more focused on the nativism/racism of many illegal immigration programs and less on rigourous research. Dobbs has featured academic researchers from Harvard, Stanford and Vanderbuilt on his show to substantiate his view that illegal immigration has seriously hurt the working class, especially African-Americans (the former view shared by Paul Krugman by the way). But somehow having this view on CNN is bad -- the nation needs TWO MSNBC's (or one MSNBC and no CNN, as Dobbs was one of their better-watched programs).
lsernoff, I don't get MSNBC so I don't watch it. I get CNN International and Fox on my satellite. The only nightly news show I watch is Anderson Cooper and his font of conventional wisdom.
lymon, I disagree, I am a Capitalist at heart, and whatever helps the free movement of trade and labor (subject to reasonable restrictions) is best. Lets make CAFTA and NAFTA real, then we can watch prosperity take hold throughout the hemisphere.
lsernoff, I don't get MSNBC so I don't watch it. I get CNN International and Fox on my satellite. The only nightly news show I watch is Anderson Cooper and his font of conventional wisdom.
lymon, I disagree, I am a Capitalist at heart, and whatever helps the free movement of trade and labor (subject to reasonable restrictions) is best. Lets make CAFTA and NAFTA real, then we can watch prosperity take hold throughout the hemisphere.
Agree with Blackie.
Its pretty clear that illegal immigrants keep wages down, which is why they are unofficially welcomed into the country and why there isn't a lot of serious efforts to fix the problem.
Mostly because in addition to allowing people to earn a living wage (which will, horrors, reduce profits), it will also require that we stop dumping excess farm and other American produce onto Mexico and destroying the jobs there. When you're faced with options that include starving to death or getting killed in a drug war, coming to America looks pretty attractive no matter how difficult we try to make it. Try changing that attitude with Dobb's proposed solutions.
Agree with Blackie.
Its pretty clear that illegal immigrants keep wages down, which is why they are unofficially welcomed into the country and why there isn't a lot of serious efforts to fix the problem.
Mostly because in addition to allowing people to earn a living wage (which will, horrors, reduce profits), it will also require that we stop dumping excess farm and other American produce onto Mexico and destroying the jobs there. When you're faced with options that include starving to death or getting killed in a drug war, coming to America looks pretty attractive no matter how difficult we try to make it. Try changing that attitude with Dobb's proposed solutions.
I think these people, like Limbaugh and Beck and O'Reilly and. previously, Father Coughlin, succeed by merely saying what their listeners want to hear and invariably its in the form of an attack on someone the listeners don't like. This is a form of high school gossip. Who wouldn't want to hear ranting about how bad the opposition is?
I think these people, like Limbaugh and Beck and O'Reilly and. previously, Father Coughlin, succeed by merely saying what their listeners want to hear and invariably its in the form of an attack on someone the listeners don't like. This is a form of high school gossip. Who wouldn't want to hear ranting about how bad the opposition is?
...I think these people, like Limbaugh and Beck and O'Reilly and. previously, Father Coughlin, succeed by merely saying what their listeners want to hear and invariably its in the form of an attack on someone the listeners don't like. This is a form of high school gossip. Who wouldn't want to hear ranting about how bad the opposition is?...
I really don't like Limbaugh and Beck from the bits of them I have experienced, and quite like O'Reilly while understanding his limitations--pretty good, but shallow, broadcaster. But on what conceivable basis, do you, by your own stated criterion (which I accept only for the purposes of this small exchange)--"succeed by merely saying what their listeners ... view full comment
...I think these people, like Limbaugh and Beck and O'Reilly and. previously, Father Coughlin, succeed by merely saying what their listeners want to hear and invariably its in the form of an attack on someone the listeners don't like. This is a form of high school gossip. Who wouldn't want to hear ranting about how bad the opposition is?...
I really don't like Limbaugh and Beck from the bits of them I have experienced, and quite like O'Reilly while understanding his limitations--pretty good, but shallow, broadcaster. But on what conceivable basis, do you, by your own stated criterion (which I accept only for the purposes of this small exchange)--"succeed by merely saying what their listeners want to hear and invariably its in the form of an attack on someone the listeners don't like"--distinguish between these Foxes and the "likes of" an Olbermann, Schultz ,or, less so, Maddow, (who is irritating on many other self-congratulatory fronts)?
The only difference is their listeners. I think Olberman has better listeners.
The only difference is their listeners. I think Olberman has better listeners.
blackton et al: Give the Brett Baird (formerly Britt Hume) Fox newshour a week of your time. What bad can happen? Anderson Cooper and Shepeard Smith are both straightforward, but both make their bones on the entertainment side of the news spectrum.
Those whose enjoy, or suffer through, this Republican's input are entitled to a comment from me on Dobbs and his viewpoint. It may surprise you. I think Dobbs is either a nativist--a perspective I can never accept-- or unwilling or unable to accept that there are lots of people, liberals and conservatives, who don't want to admit that they like cheap, hardworking labor where it benefits them. The present, brutal economic conditions may have " ... view full comment
blackton et al: Give the Brett Baird (formerly Britt Hume) Fox newshour a week of your time. What bad can happen? Anderson Cooper and Shepeard Smith are both straightforward, but both make their bones on the entertainment side of the news spectrum.
Those whose enjoy, or suffer through, this Republican's input are entitled to a comment from me on Dobbs and his viewpoint. It may surprise you. I think Dobbs is either a nativist--a perspective I can never accept-- or unwilling or unable to accept that there are lots of people, liberals and conservatives, who don't want to admit that they like cheap, hardworking labor where it benefits them. The present, brutal economic conditions may have "ameliorated" the economic impact of illegal immigrant labor for the moment, but if we were serious about the problem long-term we'd put the prosecution emphasis on the employers, not the laborers. I see no sign that either party is willing to do that.
P.S. It might surprise some readers to learn that there are are a lot of Rs out there who are repelled by nativism.